don't like your job and i'm sorry, but if you don't like your job, you can still feel better about the fact that your job is better than those poor saps that work at fars news agency for the iranian government. we are five days away from a government shutdown. today in a rousing speech, president obama was in no mood to compromise. ♪ >> five days from now on october 1 -- >> just five days until open enrollment. >> the health exchanges -- >> the affordable care act is here. >> the president is going on the offensive. >> president obama traveled to maryland this morning. >> to pitch his health care plan. >> the affordable care act passed both houses of congress. >> the bill is passed! >> i signed it into law. [ cheers and applause ] >> their candidate for president -- ran on a plat foreign minister

-- platform to repeal. >> obama care is the law of the land. >> two steps forward. >> listen, the am scan people don't want the president's health care bill. >> 39 steps back. >> speaker boehner hunkered down. >> threat of the government shutdown. >> shutting down the government. what kind of idea is that. >> but the debt ceiling. >> the debt limit we will introduce a plan. >> a cash flow problem. >> the president says i am not going to negotiate. >> i will not negotiate. >> i'm sorry it just doesn't work that way. >> the tea party republicans have taken it to a whole new level. >> the american people don't want the president's health care bill. >> elections have consequences. >> even if you've didn't vote for me, i bet you will sign up for the health care plan! ♪ five days before enrollment begins for obama care, president obama took a stand against republicans threatening a

government shutdown. the president went to maryland and began by explaining why he won't consider defunding obama care. >> in fact, for the past few years since i signed the affordable care act, a lot of you have been enjoying new benefits you didn't have before even if you didn't know they were coming from obama care. because the affordable care act, more than 100 million americans have gotten free preventative care. because of the affordable care act, 3 million young adults under age 26 have gained coverage by staying on their parents' plan. [ applause ] because of the affordable care act, millions of seniors on medicare have saved hundreds of dollars on their prescription medicine. 8.5 million families actually got an average of $100 back from their insurance companies. insurance companies can no longer put lifetime limits on the care your family need or discriminate on pre-existing conditions. starting january 1 they won't be

able to charge women more for their insurance just because they're women. [ applause ] those are the benefits of obama care. the law that republicans want to repeal. i signed it into law. the supreme court ruled it constitutional. republicans in congress have now voted more than 40 times to undermine or repeal it. their candidate for president ran on a platform to repeal it. and at every step they have been unsuccessful. [ applause ] >> president obama went after republicans for their scare

tactics, trying to scare people about obama care. >> there are so many people out there working to make it fail. one of the biggest newspapers in the country recently published an editorial i thought was pretty good. they said the republicans in congress are poisoning obama care then trying to claim it's sick. you had a state representative some where say that it is destructive to personal and individual liberty as the fugitive slave act. think about that? i like this one --

>> joining me now is congresswoman renee elmers, republican from north carolina, chair of the republican women's policy committee, and it's great to have you back on the show, congresswoman. are you terrified of running at the state level in kentucky they're calling it kinyct, those signing up or signing up for the obama care, affordable care act,

and not realizing that's what they're getting. the big risk for the states implementing the exchanges they tailor them to the state and ah-ha, look how good my state is doing or how will my state is doing at providing health care coverage. no, that's obama care. >> yeah, jared. maybe they should have written into the law some name for the exchanges. every state has a different name for their exchange. the word obama or federal government is not going to be in the name of any one of the exchanges. >> right. we may be looking at a situation, ten years from now where an aged tea partier says keep the government out of my obama care. in other word, what you have today with medicare is probably a good analogy. back when medicare first was passed, there was a tremendous anxiety. i think ronald reagan called it a great socialist experiment, a popular program. and very efficient one.

you have conservative republicans protecting medicare saying keep the government out of my medicare not making the connections it is a government program. part of this, by the way, a serious part of this is just the information that need to really get out there. it is already -- way behind in terms of the, really, flooding the public with, with important information about this. >> let's listen to what the president said today about some very, very rich republican billionaires trying to convince people not to participate in this new health care program. some of the tea party's biggest donors, wealthiest men in america funding a cynical ad campaign trying to convince young people not to buy health care at all. think about it these are billionaires, several times over, you know they have got good health care. but they are actually spending

money on television trying to convince young people that if you have got the choice between getting affordable health care or going without health care, you should choose not having any health care. now, do you think if you get sec or you get hurt, and you, and you get stuck with a massive bill, the same folks they're going to help you out? >> joy, it really is an astonishing phenomenon to watch the republican billionaires advocating for people something they would never advocate for their own children? >> you are right. herein lies the great irony about the conservative objection to obama care. what are they actually asking people to do? they're actually asking you to essentially kill yourself. because if you get sick and you don't have insurance, you can't be treated you cannot survive a catastrophic illness or they're asking you, bankrupt yourself. because if you can't afford to pay your bill at the emergency room they're going to bill you

anyway, you will be pursued by credit collections people, you could lose your home. people are going bankrupt or dying earlier because they're not getting preventative care. they're catching breast cancers at stage 3 and stage 4. they're presenting this is as liberty. this is not freedom. it is crazy. if the government is going to super subsidize you to buy what you and i have, because we have a job, an insurance card, go to the doctor, why would you say no? what is ate but liberty that it is a good thing not to have the card. they're trying to fudge that argument that some how you are abridging liberty by giving people the opportunity to have insurance. it is insane. >> now, a lot of people are saying republicans are afraid obama care will be successful and that will be the problem. ted cruz actually admitted exactly that to rush limbaugh. let's listen to the way he put it to rush limbaugh about the public getting addicted to the sugar of obama care. >> as you know, the exchanges

are going to be up and running shortly. on january 1, subsidies are scheduled to kick in. president obama's strategy is simple. he wants to get as many americans as possible addicted to the subsidies, addicted to the sugar. because he knows that in modern times, no major entitlement has ever been implemented and then unwound. >> he gets as many people signed up to those exchanges as possible. it makes it all that much more difficult to take it away from them. >> that is exactly right. >> so, jared, there it is. they're afraid it is going to work. >> yeah, that's the evil plan right there. revealed by those two great conspirator theorists, that the, affordable care act is supposed to help people without coverage get health insurance. oh, my goodness. and in fact, one of the things particularly, as an economist i have fund to be particularly -- found to be particularly notable here is one thing the plan does in exchanges it introduces a level of competition. a republican idea, by the way.

a level of competition between insurance companies that doesn't currently exist in a market that is very skewed such that -- consumers don't have clear information. so these online exchanges will prevent very clear information forcing insurers to compete. thus far, we have seen in many exchanges across the nation. costs coming down. because of that competition. 10, 20, 50% in new york state. so not only is this going to cover a lot of people when it is up and running. it is going to do for a lesser cost than would be the case. squeezing inefficiencies out of our system. >> jared reid, and tara bernstein, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> why john boehner has one of the most difficult and certainly the most ridiculous job in washington. and who's running, really running the republican party. some suggest it is not anyone in elective office.

and in the "rewrite" an homage of sorts to bill o'reilly as we inaugurate "pin heads and white house correspondents" tweet me your guesses which white house correspondent might be tonight's pinhead. that's coming up. [ female announcer ] what's hot now? it's covergirl's max volume flamed out mascara. new max volume wire brush sweeps lashes up and out for bigger, longer, 3x the volume. new max volume flamed out mascara from easy breezy beautiful covergirl. yeah? then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. silence. are you in good hands? ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history.

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for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. george zimmerman's wife shellie zimmerman had doubts about what happened the night. george zimmerman was found not guilty of second degree murder. >> do you still believe the story that we have all heard from him? >> i'm conflicted on that. i believe the evidence. but this revelation in my life has really helped me to take the blinders off and see things. >> let me understand, you doubt his innocence at least the fact that he was acting in self-defense on the night that trayvon martin was killed?

>> i think anyone would doubt that innocence because i don't know the person that high have -- i have been married to. >> the revelation in her life she was referring to came after a domestic incident that caused her to call 911 and report her husband was threatening her. she explained why she didn't press charges. >> in hindsight, i should have. and i really regret that. but i'm on probation. and the officers made it very clear that day that if i pressed charges we were all going to go to jail and i would have been the only one to stay there. >> george zimmerman had no comment on this wife's interview with matt lauer. >> next, the second toughest job in washington is also the most ridiculous job in washington. [ man ] on december 17, 1903,

the wright brothers became the first in flight. [ goodall ] i think the most amazing thing is how like us these chimpanzees are. [ laughing ] [ woman ] can you hear me? and you hear your voice? oh, it's exciting! [ man ] touchdown confirmed. we're safe on mars. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ hi. [ baby fussing ] ♪ nice car. sure is. make a deal with me, kid, and you can have the car and everything that goes along with it. [ thunder crashes, tires squeal ] ♪ ♪

so, what do you say? thanks... but i think i got this. ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new cla. starting at $29,900. >> an we agree that john boehner has the second toughest job in washington. i didn't think so. let's try this. can we all agree that john boehner has the most ridiculous job in washington? okay. now we have got something of an agreement here. he has to pretend to his tea party crazies that he is going to seriously, seriously try to defund obama care when he knows it is not possible. when he fails to do that or actually before he fails to do that as he knows he will, he has to promise to his tea party crazies that he is going to get them everything on their wish list, everything they have ever wanted when it comes time to raise the debt ceiling. >> on the debt limit we are

going to introduce a plan that ties important spending cuts and pro-growth reforms to a debt limit increase. now the president says i'm not going to negotiate. well, i'm sorry it just doesn't work that way. >> what john boehner is really sorry about, he has to go through this charade of pretending to his tea party crazies that he can get a long list of their favorite idea attached to a debt ceiling increase and therefore, signed into law by president obama. the president who today said this. >> i will not negotiate on anything when it comes to the full faith and credit of the united states of america. we're not going to submit to this kind of total irresponsibility. congress need to pay our bills on time. congress needs to pass a budget

on time. congress need to put an end to governing from crisis to crisis. if republican do not like the law they can go through the regular channels and processes to try to change it. that's why we have elections. so they, they can go through the normal processes and procedures of a democracy, but you do not threaten the full faith and credit of the united states of america. >> joining me now vase va democratic senator mark warner. sits on the budget and banking committees and the joint economic committee. senator warner, what are your republican friend across the aisle, what do they not understand about the president when he says i will not negotiate? >> i don't get it. you know, i am a big advocate of bipartisanship. but nobody would responsibly say america ought to default. there has been a major industrial nation that

defaulted. the most recent nation was argentina. and virtually people lost 60%, 70% of their total value, family value overnight. i just don't understand it. i don't think again, i am astonished we have wasted this week, playing russian roulette with the full credit and faith of america. i would say this, some of the republican folks have got to be willing to step up. some are willing to step up. the antics against some of the antics. as you said earlier there are folks on the other side right now driving the bus. they don't care if the bus is headed straight to the cliff. >> now, ted cruz, the other day -- did something unusual. he proposed unanimous consent request, members of the senate don't, that's reserved for the majority leader. one was let any just go and vote on this thing. now ted cruz is delaying the vote on the continuing resolution in the senate. how did that happen?

>> well, you know -- i would ask you to urge your viewers to check out some of the republican senators who are calling out some of these senators who have been all about delay. this is, you know getting at least, there was a recognition that if we keep this delay, the ability, especially of the speaker sending something back that is not a clean funding of the government, it will mean we are into next weekend, millions of families are going to end up having their economy hurt, have their, financial status hurt. we, we got word that, we are sending 66,000 sailors to work tuesday. they're not going to get paid. that is just irresponsible beyond belief. just because the guys may want to continue the charade for another night. >> the tempers are flaring on the republican side in the senate in ways i have never seen before. republican senator bob corker called out mike lee and ted cruz about this delay without using their names. but everyone knew he was talking about. let's listen to what he had to say.

>> and relative to this vote tonight happening tomorrow instead is that my two colleagues who i respect, have sent out e-mails around the world and turned this into a show possibly. therefore they want people around the world to watch, maybe them, and others on the senate floor, and that is taking priority over getting legislation back to the house so they could take action before the country's government shuts down. >> senator, i have never seen a senate vote scheduled on the basis of members having sent out e-mails to their audiences saying, hey, watch this. on friday. you are starting to see a recognition all of us want to come out of the mainstream, democrat, republican saying enough of these shenanigans. can you imagine? this economy we know is not producing enough jobs to.

shut down the government, period of time, ripple effect. two weeks later this lawn dream list of desires coming out of the debt ceiling demand that i hope, i can tell you this senator, hope the president stands firm as well you. don't negotiate with the, full faith and credit of the united states. so, you know -- at some point -- the vast majority of americans hatch got to say enough. i think you are starting to see that amongst democrats and republicans. >> senator you are on the joint economic committee, kind of a congressional think-tank in its way. the big think about our economy and world economy. i am not sure the joint economic committee has even bothered to seriously look at what happens if we don't raise the debt ceiling since it, prior to this era has never been a serious possibility? >> well, we had a hearing -- on it -- about ten days ago. one of the so-called expert said, it really wouldn't be that bad. and i went on about a six-minute

rant. i usually keep my temper. normally bipartisan guy. i lost it. i said how can anyone responsibly say that you are going to play russian roulette with the american economy, but the world economy. once that genie comes out of the bottle. you are not going to get your debt rating re-upgraded. a lasting effect. i don't think there is a responsible economist i met from left to write that thinks fooling with the full faith and credit of the united states or prioritizing who we are going to pay makes any economic sense. >> that hearing got my attention. i don't think you lost it. i don't think there was a more responsible voice in the room. thank you for joining us here tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up -- our very first episode of "pin heads & white house correspondents." guess which white house correspondent is tonight's

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in "the spotlight" who is really running the republican party a cording to bloomberg business week's cover story, the leader of the republican party is jim demint, former south carolina senator turned president of the heritage foundation. the man behind the senate's rising stars. ted cruz, marco rubio, and rand paul.

he is out to kill obama care and target any republican who stand in his way. business week's josh green writes, as demint sees it, if republicans would just toughen up and start singing from the same hymnal public opinion may swing to his side. >> joining me now, senior editor, josh green, and msnbc's correspondent. when jim demint left the senate, going to go to the heritage foundation, leave the senate he would be more effective when he left the senate. and some of us made fun of that saying how ridiculous a notion that he could possibly, a senator could be more effective after leaving the senate going down the street to a think-tank. josh, don't tell me you are here to tell me that i was wrong about that. >> i think you were wrong about that. >> oh, oh.

>> we all know demint was in the senate, mitch mcconnell's chief tormentor, leading voice of dissent on the right-wing of the republican caucus. he did manage to get a lot done. i explain in the piece, talking and traveling with demint. he became frustrated. heritage would be a better platform. it would allow him the money and political resources to start a movement, from outside to force the changes he wasn't able to bring about from inside the senate. >> i think, josh, might have the workings of an agreement here. because -- here's my new position. jim demint could not have been less effective as a senator and so really any other job he would be more effective than he was as a senator. how does that sound for you? am i saving anything from my previous position here? >> lawrence, it is good lawyering. you are fighting a pivot. i think the piece is interesting. it does speak to the fact that there are folks in the republican party who have very

extreme and tremendously ambitious and potentially damaging plans. and for them i would say their advocacy in the senate was challenged because they weren't doing real legislation on the day-to-day. and on obama care or aca, whatever you want to call it. they lost. they lost in the senate. they lost in the supreme court. as senator mccain pointed out. you showed footage on your show yesterday. they lost in the re-elect. so if that's the kind of change they want. those things weren't going to happen. i would note, audience people know and understand in a lot of ways senators have a lot of power in using filibusters and delaying obama's nominations, shutting down consumer protection bureau. if your idea is doing these things and going radical, maybe you need to do radical tours around the country. >> let's listen to what tom coburn said today about what the senate has become since jim demint left.

>> you know, i am finishing up nine years in the senate. and nobody has higher conservative rate thank i do. i am no longer a conservative according to standards set by the expectation of the process. i would love to get rid of obama care. but i don't see a path forward to doing that. and until you get, until the president is out of office. >> josh, in your piece, you say, demint says if they would all -- sing from the same hymn book or something like that. they all do. i mean, i don't quite get it. every single one of them says obamacare is bad. every sentence of it is bad. we must get rid of every sentence of it. i have never seen a republican party more completely unified on an issue than they are on that. what else does demint want? >> you know, demint made exactly that same point to me, lawrence. we all have a lot in common. the distinction he draws isn't one of ideology.

he points out that just as you did. every republican professes to want to repeal obama care. what is at issue is intensity and really sort of the fanaticism. that's where all the groups draw the line. demint's broader strategy whether you think it is right or wrong. if republicans would draw the sharp distinctions and have big -- epic clashes like we are right now over the size of government. that would clarify the issue for the american people. he thinks, poll numbers don't back this up. the american people would swing to his side. we would have the republican revolution they all say they're after. >> they're having big clashes amongst themselves. let's listen to peter king said on morning joe about a republican senator. you don't hear stuff like this in that old senate where jim demint used to work. >> bottom line is he a fraud?

>> yes, he is. and what i am saying directly is what other people like tom coburn are saying politely. he is pursuing a policy which is not intellectually honest. selling a false bill of goods to the american people. using that joe over the sum r to put pressure on solid conservative republicans in their districts if they didn't support defunding they were rhinos not real conservatives, not real republicans. >> so, there is a republican house member going on tv saying a republican senator is a fraud. >> yeah, that's very significant because ted cruz was lying this week. and it's one thing to say, we want to have more intense opposition to obama care. they could try to do that. it is the law of the land. if they said anything to the president. he could veto it. there are rules, precedents here that are going to restrict them from having the progress. then when you have their members go out and say, basically, i am performing a filibuster which he was not doing.

a vote for cloture is vote for obama care. ted cruz lied repeatedly to his supporters. that tells us a tremendous amount about him as a political figure. >> looks to me like no one is running the republican party. josh, arie, thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up -- in tonight's episode of "pinheads and white house correspondents" we'll let you decide if one of the reporters in the front rope of the white house briefing room is a pinhead or white house correspondent. i'm not going to do the o'reilly thing and tell you who the pinheads are. i am going to report and you decide. meeting took forever.

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we'll help you get there. the florida woman sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing a warning shot into a wall will finally get a new trial. marisa alexander fired the gun to scare her estranged husband when she felt he was threatening her. no one was hurt. a jury convicted her of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, prosecuted by angela cory who prosecuted george zimmerman.

alexander deserves the new trial because the judge did not properly instruct the jury on what was necessary to prove self defense. >> the "rewrite" is next where we will rewrite bill o'reilly's concept of pinheads and patriots into pinheads and white house correspondents. american dream is of a better future, a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪ like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. that's how ameriprise puts more within reach. ♪

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time now for pinhead and patriots. >> bill o'reilly ever a man of grace and gentility does not like to call people stupid. he calls them pin heads. the word stupid was invented because stupidity exists in the world which means many americans or can be from time to time stupid. i learned through twitter people dent like stupid.

stupid people don't like the word stupid. on the off chance some may have neilson boxes it is best for tv commentators to avoid the use of that offensive word. something bill o'reilly learned long before i did. hence the more elegant construct, pinhead, which the last word will now hereby appropriate for the new title of our new segment, "pin heads and white house correspondents." our premiere episode of pin heads and white house correspondents stars fox news chief white house correspondent ed henry. there he is. he is the pinhead, or maybe the pinhead sitting in the front row of the white house press briefing room surrounded by some of the real reporters who work there. ed henry walked into the press briefing room yesterday with a plan. sure he was very proud of his plan. he knew it would thrill his fox news bosses. he was going to trap jay carnie with the brilliant question he had planned.

>> you are talking enrollment, will jay carnie and white house staff enroll in obama care? >> pinheads are a proud people. very, very proud of their ignorance. that question could not possibly be more ignorant. like asking jay carnie if heave will enroll in the food stamp program since he is a known defender of the food stamp program. like asking him if he will enroll in medicare. he does not qualify for medicare for reasons ed henry may understand. because jay carnie is not exactly 65 years old yet. jay carnie its not one of the people the food stamp program its designed to help. for reasons that ed henry might or might not understand. and obamacare was not designed to deliver health care, health insurance, to people like jay carnie for reasons that ed henry apparently does not understand.

there is not one person at fox news who didn't think that ed henry's question was just great, great question. because there is not one person on the fox news pave roll in front of the camera or behind the camera who understands anything about obama care, not one person, knowing that would involve doing just the tiniest amount of home work and the tiniest amount of actual thinking. there are 300 million people in ed henry's america. and obama care was designed to provide health insurance for only about 5% of those people. included in its design was the provision of medicaid which is not health insurance. for about another 5% of the people. obama care is a program designed for people who do not already have employer provided health insurance. just as food stamps is a program for people who do not have enough money to buy food. most people don't need food stamps.

and most people don't need obama care. the best way for jay carnie to actively participate in obama care for him to walk out of the press briefing room, go to a tanning salon and pay the 10% obama care tanning salon tax. that helps pay for obama care for people who cannot afford health insurance. this is very simple stuff to understand. so we have hey choice to make tonight about ed henry. is he a pinhead? or a liar who is just pretending not to know the truth about obama care? >> would you enroll? >> absolutely. >> a simple question. >> ed, if i did not have employer provided health insurance like i am sure you do unless there is something about fox i don't know, then i would absolutely enroll. it would be more affordable because of it. >> so, pinhead or liar? what do you think? one clue, one clue to look for

is that pinheads are never embarrassed when their questions, their unformed questions are exposed as really kind of very uninformed. jay carnie wasn't finished. there was more to his answer. ed henry appeared to be, or pretended to be listening, but not taking notes. so we're not sure what ed henry might have learned from this. >> that the whole purpose, again, a fact often either -- ignored or mischaracterized by critics -- is that if you have insurance provided by your employer that you like nothing changes for you. but itch you change jobs or if you -- but if you change jobs or you get laid off and you, and then take a job, start your own business or take a job where you

are not given insurance by your employer, you will now have, or once the marketplaces are in effect, options that were never available before at affordable prices and that's the point. >> pinheads never apologize. they never formally surrender. there was no apology from ed henry following that question. heave didn't say, "oh, sorry for take up your time with that ridiculous question." i guess that's something i should have known for maybe the last three years or so but i have never bothered to do the most basing home work and learn the most simple facts about obama care just like everyone else at fox news. and maybe ed henry didn't apologize because ed henry knew the truth of everything that jay carnie was saying, but ed henry decided to play dumb for the fox news bosses and for america. and so the time has come for us to decide about ed henry. and unlike bill o'reilly i am not going to do it for you. bill doesn't trust his audience to decide to who are the pinheads.

who are the patriots? >> another ridiculous assertion put forth by mr. dogg who obviously is a pinhead. >> once again, old lewis is a pinhead. >> pin head no doubt. >> obviously the fly is a pinhead. but he its dead. >> bill its the sole judge of who've the pinheads are. i will leave title you. you've tell me. while you are at it, tell ed henry. is ed henry a pinhead? or a white house correspondent? [ taps baton ] [ dings ] ♪ [ male announcer ] every thought... every movement... ♪ ...carefully planned, coordinated and synchronized. ♪ performing together with a single, united purpose. ♪ that's what makes the world's leading airline... flyer friendly.

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[ thunder crashes, tires squeal ] ♪ ♪ so, what do you say? thanks... but i think i got this. ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new cla. starting at $29,900. without apology, the nra want no part of any treaty that infringes on the precious right of lawful americans to keep and bear arms. let there be no confusion -- any

treaty that includes civilian firearms ownership in its scope will be met with nra's greatest force of opposition. >> the treaty that blood drenched lobbyist wayne lapierre fears was signed by john kerry, the united nations arms trade treaty designed to reduce weapons trafficking. though the treaty has no effect on law, the nra released this statement -- >> upon signing the treaty, secretary of state kerry said this -- >> this treaty will not diminish any one's freedom. in fact, the treaty recognizes the freedom of both individuals

and states to obtain, possess, and use arms for legitimate purposes. make no mistake, we would never think about supporting a treaty that is inconsistent with the rights of americans, the rights of american citizens to be able to exercise their guaranteed rights under or constitution. >> joining me now, mark fulman, senior editor at "mother jones." mark the treaty has to get ratified by the united states senate. a tough chore with the nra standing in the way. but this notion that this treaty has any impact on american law in any way, how is the nra creating that fiction? >> well, you know, lawrence. this is classic nra. they have been pushing the myth for years. they were pushing it long before this treaty even existed.

it was just talk. this is how they operate, they appeal to paranoia to promote their agenda. which is protecting the gun manufacturing business. so whenever anything comes up that is remotely in the frame of regulating weapons, they have this kind of scorched earth approach that has no basis in reality. as you know, the, treaty is focused on keeping conventional weapons from being trafficked to jen -- warlord, criminals, you would think the political right would be all for that. but you know the right-wing elements in congress are standing against it. they're aligned with the nra on this one. if it's because they are behind this agenda which really has the no basis in reality. >> this is an attempt on their part to preserve trafficking in weapons that can and will at some point be aimed at american

soldiers. this 'tis not, just handguns we are talking about in this treaty. this is attack helicopters, tanks, this is major armament that this treaty also controls. >> right which makes their position look all the more absurd. but i think the focus for them is more likely to beep the, the -- you know military style, semiautomatic rifles, that are allowed in the civilian market in the united states. a big part of the gun business here. so, you know that's -- close enough to, to that for them to get uncomfortable about it. >> and this does seem to be, you know, the american bar association, many legal authorities have come out and said, look, this treaty, like most treaties, all most all treaties, has absolutely no effect on american law and cannot change one comma of american law state, local, federal, not in any way. but -- with that, this, this does seem to demonstrate more clearly than most other examples that the nra is very much

concerned with preserving massive sales of firearms for its, the firearms companies that support it. >> i think that's right. and you said, there is nothing in the law that suggests what they say is at all true. there is no basis for believing that this will lead to confiscation of guns or to -- or to infringement upon americans rights as secretary of state kerry reiterated this week. it's essential codified in the treaty which really is symbolic more than anything. it creates a set of international guidelines but not enforceable domestically in the united states. and you know, all of that being said. the nra isn't interested in talking about it. they want to -- hold a -- 100% line against anything that has to do with regulating firearms. you know one of the ironies here too is, they're -- political right loves to beat of on the united nations. they always portray it as -- a

feckless, ineffective, international body that the u.s. should have no part of. here it is more convenient for them to portray it as a body that has great power. enough power to trump the united states constitution. when it comes to firearms which is frankly absurd. >> what are the hurdles for ratification of this treaty in the united states senate? >> well my understanding is it need a 2/3 majority to pass. good luck with this congress getting anything passed, let alone that kind of majority. so it's probably pretty unlikely. and you, you have had senators stand in the way of this in the past. you know we had a story in mother jones a couple years ago, about senator rand paul who actually fund raised on the issue. he sent out a newsletter, constituents, asking for money. and he pushed this myth that this treaty would lead to mass confiscation of americans' guns. you know, facts be damned. there are members of congress who support the nra agenda on this in lock step. it is unlikely it can get past

them let alone get that kind of majority. >> mark fulman gets tonight's last word. thank you. >> thank you for having me. carnival cruise. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this, the eve of destruction. for reasons of anger, politics, and personality, the united states government stands this week on the eve if not of destruction of outrageous dysfunction. the government faces shutdown. then if this keeps escalating, default. for the first time in america's history, the world will watch as we ourselves implode on ourselves telling every creditor from an american paper boy to chinese billionaire that